Weeks 4-6
Please use the comments section to answer questions. Do not try to answer all questions. Try to keep up an average of one per week, with time for a few comments on the ideas of others.
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
3.Hahn's essay (see critical reader)on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleidentifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguesit has a different purpose than asserting the feminine. What does he think the function of the story is?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
I will be commenting on Question 1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
ReplyDeleteWithin the next few days.
1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fibula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
ReplyDeleteTo answer this question, you first need to understand the differences between the 3 different versions of the text. The two areas I will explore are how the main heroin portrays or describes the loathly lady and what the knight/king/”hero” did to gain her favour. This is also going to have to be submitted in 2 posts due to its overall length.
On the condition of how the main heroin portrays the “loathly lady”, the three texts differ greatly
In “The Wife of Bath’s Tale by Chaucer (Newer translation by Carter, S.)”, the women is not the only person to call herself “ugly”. This is proven from Line 998 to 1004, he uses the words of, “there can no man imagine an uglier beast. However she in turn calls herself ugly with evidence of this lies within the lines, 1063 to 1066 “For though I am ugly, and old, and poor”. He only uses the word uglier beast, she takes it further using the words “old, ugly and poor”. Though there is an undertone from the heroin “Arthur” that she is disfigured but he does not act or treat her harshly (For sack of desperation I believe, as he may lose his head).
In “King Arthur meets a really Ugly Woman by Hahn, T.”, the character Arthur is the one to express her appearance and apart or supposed ugliness (Arthur however does not marry her, it is Sir Gallian who does so). This is proven from early on in this text as early as Line 4 “She was the ugliest creature that a man ever saw”. This is only the start of his judgement of her based on her physical appearance. His continued negative description of her from line 7 to 21 include, “Her eyes were bleary, as large as balls, her mouth just as large.” All the way to “To recite the foulness of that lady there is no tongue fit. She had ugliness to spare.” All these words convey a strong judgement of the “Loathly Lady” show how greatly judgemental Arthur is of the Loathly Lade. To compare with the first text, the writer has clear went out of their way to create a clearer image of what the Loathly lady looks like to him. The first text only used generalised words like “Ugly, poor and old”. This text takes it to a detail of what her eyes, mouth, tongue and more parts of her are like.
In “King Henry” by Steeleye Span, Henry like Arthur in the previous text are the only heroines to express in great detail their overall dislike of her physical appearance. Henry however does his description of her in far less lines than the previous story. His description of her uses words like “her …” with examples to follow like “Her head hit the roof tree of the house” on line 25 and others going all the way till line 30. His description of her on line 32 would have to be the most explicit one of the list of insulting and negative words he has used to describe the “Loathly Lady”. In this line 32, he goes to say “She seemed to be than a fiend that comes from hell”. The act of describing her as a fiend, a demon like creature creates a clear image and that she inhabits this world and came from hell. To summarize “Henry” greatly dislikes her physical appearance but what he does to gain her favour is a whole other area of questioning.
In conclusion, while most of the texts give harsh descriptions of the loathly lady, only the text In “King Arthur meets a really ugly Woman by Hahn, T.”, goes into such detail to describe her, dedicating 15 lines to it. The uses of words like “broad”, “heap”, “yard across” and “load for a horse” give you a better mental image of the loathly lady. The other texts only call her Ugly (a generic term used to describe a person of issue) with the exception of the text In “King Henry” by Steeleye Span going into some detail using words like “fiend”, “Hell”. For the King Henry Text, a religious aspect is implied by the use of those previous words.
Post 2 - What the knight/king or "Hero" does to gain the Loathly Ladies favour?
DeleteIn “The Wife of Bath’s Tale by Chaucer (Newer translation by Carter, S.)”, Arthur must prove the Queen that he is an honourable man by answering the question from line 905 - “What thing it is that women most desire.” In his journey to find the answer to this question by “bedding” and talking to many women, he is no closer to an answer. When he finally comes across a women, she offers him the answer - a women from line 998 “Save on the green he saw sitting a woman”. She gives him the answer to his question he seeks from line 1038 - “Women desire to have sovereignty” with the continued description continued through till the end of line 1042. The loathly lady uses her promise he got from Arthur to become his wife or queen (sovereign). It is to a degree ironic as the answer he seeks and gives to the queen is exactly what happens to him. Arthur is tricked into marrying the loathly lady. It is almost poetic justice from the text that what he seeks it what he deserves or gets in the end. Overall the heroin “Arthur” must promise to the loathly lady that he will do whatever she asks of him in pursuit of his answer. This promise is honoured by him when she asks him of her request, in this day and age if this text was anything more than fiction. The person might try to get around it or escape his fate.
In “King Arthur meets a really Ugly Woman by Hahn, T.”, this story only slightly differs from the original text by Chaucer. Instead the Loathly lady pursuing Arthur, she pursues Sir Gallian to be her husband. However Arthur in talking to the ugly lady says he cannot force him to wed her “I cannot promise you I will order Sir Gawain to wed”. The King honours him as he says he would (willingly) marry the ugly lady (loathly lady) again and again for the king to remain in power.
Overall this text requires Arthur to find the answer like the first text but it is his subornate who is convinced to marry the ugly lady. Arthur does get his answer for the queen though - “What women want?”
In “King Henry” by Steeleye Span, Henry does deeds for the Loathly lady beyond a simply promise or an act of honour by a friend (Sir Gallian). To paraphrase the original text, I will state the following lines from this text which go to “Henry’s” intent.
Post 2 continued
DeleteTo paraphrase the Paragraph 5 “Henry kills his steed to feed to her, she eats it leaving nothing but hide and hair”
This sentence basically has him kill his only means of transportation to prove to her his intent and to feed her hunger.
To paraphrase the Paragraph 6 to 7 “Henry kills his greyhounds and goshawks for her to eat, she leaves nothing but hide and hair or feathers bane”
This sentence basically has him kill his means to help him hunt for food and to communicate over a distance (goshawks) to again prove to her his intent and to feed her hunger.
To paraphrase the Paragraph 10 to 11 “Day comes in, sun shone in hall, fairest lady that ever was seen“- Paragraph 11
This sentence is the finally result of taking the then ugly lady in bed to having her become the Loathly Lady.
This text gives the greatest description of what the main heroin does to please the loathly lady.
To summarize this text does not have as much plot progression as the previous Arthur based texts but is does show clearly beyond as I have stated before, the ends in which Henry would go to prove his intent of her. This is the only text where he kills creatures (dog, horse, bird?) for the Loathly Lady.
One could say that each newer text refers to a smaller text of the previous text and gives it greater detail. The first text is long and briefly details what he does and the plot moves forward. The next text skips or removes a lot of the start of the first one and gives greater detail of the loathly lady. The fall text compared to the previous one only focuses on the encounter “Henry” (Changed from Arthur for perhaps religious reasons) on his first meeting and what he does for the loathly lady to “Please her”.
Note, I do not refer the loathly lady as the ugly lady because I found it too confusing and I refer to both as the loathly lady. You could even say it is a form of censorship or political correctness.
As a personal note, I did not like these texts and found them more romantic and simple, the previous section covering the texts like The Hobbit, Volsunga Saga and Beowulf had me more interested.
If you have any thoughts or wish to ask me any questions, feel free to comment below.
References
Chaucer, Geoffrey (c.1390). The Wife of Bath. (Read)
Hahn, T. (Ed.). (1995). the Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. In Sir Gawain: Eleven Romances and Tales. Kalamazoo, Michigan: Medieval Institute Publications
Steeleye Span (1972). King Henry. In Below the Salt. US: Shanachie
Good answer, thorough and well referenced. I have nothing to add!
Deleteps: heroine is the word, heroin is the drug.
Thank you for that spelling correction.
DeleteThe next question I am going to discuss is "The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source. "
ReplyDeleteIt should be posted up in the coming days. Again, feel free to comment or criticise my analysis.
Post 1 of 2 for "If Chaucer may have been a feminist?"
ReplyDeleteAccording to the oxford English dictionary, a feminist is an adjective that goes to describing “A person who relates to or advocates the rights and equality of women (another word for feminism). Oxford English Dictionary (2015).
With regards to whether or not Chaucer was a feminist, my studies for other analyse of this topic have brought up some interesting results.
This is what I have found out.
1. Chaucer was a man born into a privileged area of London, England in the 14th Century. Carter, S (2003). At this period of time in England, the Catholic Church ran the country (it was not until later on in or around the 19th century when the church and state affairs were separated, if they have been separated truly at all).
2. This meant that Chaucer may or may not have been exposed to religious doctoring or influence in one way or another. Some people I have read this text, say Chaucer wants us to “Laugh at the character, Alisoun (Wife of Bath)”. Smith, N (6th, Dec 2011). Some say that he cannot be blamed for how he wrote it with an example quoted from Susan K. Hagen’s – Effective Feminist Approach. “All people are the products of the society in which they live” This quote basically means that we are made by the family, friends and society we live in and our beliefs and the way be behave at some level should not be held to such a high level of scrutiny.
3. Chaucer’s main character in the text is an old women. The Wife of Bath Tale and its bigger text, “The Canterbury Tales” is written by an older women about an older women seeking a new husband. Carosone, M (2015). However since it is written by a man (History could have gotten it wrong, “Blame the editor”), some people have said that Chaucer cannot understand the female position nor does he portray Wife of Bath or other women very well. For example from Elaine Tuttle Hansen’s Effective - Feminist Approach, she describes the “Wife of Bath as rewarding the rapist with her and that she only superficially rebels. Hansen (Line 35). This basically means that the evil act of forced sex is overall rewarding, sending a negative message to the reader. Another example is that “Wife of Bath fights the system to then accept it in the end. Beidler (Line 109). This has a similar meaning to the previous example but in this case, he makes it that she does fight the system through using men for sex, that she perhaps enjoys it, is not ashamed to have been married five times (An act the catholic church does not look kindly upon) and that she is a proud and bold women. Carosone, M (2015). Though in the end she does give into the established patriarchal system, she does put up or is a voice against it. Dinshaw, C (1989).
4. If Chaucer was an early form of a feminist, the “misogyny of the time”, could have caused him problems. Dinshaw, C (1989). Since he lived in privilege and wealth and he came out like this, he could have lost it all and his works could have never been published (Not popular to the statuesque, not fit for publishing).
5. If Chaucer was not an early form of a feminist, example like “Making her call herself ugly or using sex for her own gain”. Chaucer, G (?). Other examples like using “Sexual attributes for sexual gain, instead of proving her equal status”. Smith, N (6th, Dec 2011). And “She cannot truly engage in intelligent or informed conversation without using the bible as a reference”. Both of these examples go to show her as a negative role model for women and to make “Alisoun or Wife of Bath” a “Stereotypical” women of her time.
Post 2 of 2 for "If Chaucer may have been a feminist"
ReplyDeleteTo summarize, I believe from all the information I presented you can make your own opinion as to whether or not, Chaucer is a feminist. For me, I believe Chaucer is a feminist.
• Firstly I believe his is a feminist because he writes a story from a female perspective and not from a man. A man who in earlier poems or tale would either rescuing a women, slay a great beast or try to obtain treasure (“Beowulf”, “Damsel in Distress” theme, “Voluspa Saga”, “The Hobbit”).
• Secondly. Chaucer could have written the whole tale from the perspective of King Arthur but choose not to, it says something about the purpose and meaning he was trying to convey.
• Thirdly, Though he could have had her branch out completely and go against the patriarchal system at the time, he choose to limit it but have the “Wife of Bath” push at what was acceptable to the statuesque of the time (Catholic Church of the middle age England). He writes her actions and text from a more realistic base as for a women in that day, if they didn’t get a husband or come from a wealthy family, they would have died (It was for some and even today a “hand to mouth type of society for people”).
• Finally, though in the end, Wife of Bath does not branch out completely from the established patriarchal system, she does lay some seeds or ideas as to what women can do.
• Chaucer is a feminist in modern terms but in his period, I would have to say he was more of a realist. And that in this text, similar to the definition of Feminist, Chaucer does relate to the rights but maybe not to the equality of women in his text, “The Wife of Bath’s Tale.”
References
Beidler, Peter G. (1996). Case Studies in Contemporary Criticism: Geoffrey Chaucer: The Wife of Bath. Boston: Bedford Books. Accessed on 15th April 2015.
Carter, S (2003). Coupling the Beastly Bride and the hunter hunted: what lies behind Chaucer’s “The Wife of Bath’s Tale.” (PP 81-97). Accessed on 14th, April 2015, Retrieved from Critical Reader 2014 document for Literature and Desire 2014 resource from AUT.
Carosone, M (2015). Geoffrey Chaucer: Feminist or Not? (PP 1 – 19) Accessed on 9th, April 2015. Retrieved from http://www.academia.edu/657084/Geoffrey_Chaucer_Feminist_Or_Not
Dinshaw, Carolyn. (1989). Chaucer’s Sexual Poetics. Madison: University of Wisconsin Press. Accessed on 15th, April 2015.
Chaucer, G. (?). The Wife of Bath’s Tale. Line 857 to 1264. Accessed on 14th, April 2015. Retrieved from Desire_Critical Reader 2014.pdf (PP 68 – 75)
Hagen, Susan K. (1991). “The Wife of Bath: Chaucer’s Inchoate Experiment in Feminist hermeneutics. “Rebels and Rivals: The Contestive Spirit in the Canterbury Tales. Susanna Greer Fein, David Raybin, and Peter C. Braeger, editors. Kalamazoo: Medieval Institute. Accessed on 13th April 2015.
Oxford English Dictionary (2015). Word search, feminist. Accessed on 12th, April 2015. Retrieved from http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/69193?redirectedFrom=feminist#eid
Smith, N (6th, Dec 2011). Feminist Analysis of the Prologue for the Wife of Bath (Canterbury Tales) (PP 1 to 2). Accessed 9th, April 2015. Retrieved from http://www.articlemyriad.com/feminist-analysis-prologue-wife-bath/
Really impressed with the research you have done, I'm now rather nervous for my posts. However, I do have a question regarding Chaucer. After the lecture on Tuesday the 21st, do you still think that Chaucer is a feminist? I felt the same as you have mentioned on this post until that lecture. The idea that The Wife of Bath's Tale is actually a dig at the Celtic customs, in regards to their holding women in high regard, makes me question Chaucer's motives. What do you think?
DeleteI think that he was not a feminist. After the lecture on the 21st April, the lecturer put his opinion on it very clearly. It is a joke on feminism or female rights but I had to take a position on the subject, so I said he was one. It you read my summary however, I do not really believe he is one, he is more of a realist of his time period, it might be harsh but it is always easiest to write what you know. I look forward to your position on it, if you choose to answer this question.
DeleteFeel free to leave any comments or discuss anything I have said.
ReplyDeleteMy next questions I am going to answer is, What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance? It should be posted in the next few days.
ReplyDeleteVery well argued, Stewart. If I may play the Devil's advocate for a moment, some would claim that Chaucer is only giving voice to a woman's point of view in order to mock it. Did you read Revard?
ReplyDeleteI would say that Chaucer does give a voice to women, his intent however to be being from a modern "feminist" or "anti-feminist" point of view is open to interruption. I am studying the article by "Revard", for my next question.
Delete4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
ReplyDeleteConceits can be explained as the main material subject of the text. According to Abrams (1993), ‘deeper meanings within the poem and to display the poet’s own cunning with words’. (p.113)
In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobeans sonnets, we can find out there are much ‘conceits’ in sonnets. For example, Shakespeare uses conceits to liken the natural beauty of a woman to the beauty of nature itself in Shakespeare Sonnet XVlll. ‘2. Thou art more lovely and more temperate’ (line 2, p.105), he describe woman’s warmth to more lovely and temperate than the summer day.
Moreover, in sonnet CXXX, we can find out that Shakespeare use conceits to describes the mistress as someone less beautiful than nature, such as ‘My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun; Coral is far more red, than her lips red: If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun’. (Line 1-3, p105)
Furthermore, in Edmund Spenser’s ‘Ice and Fire’, ‘My love is like to ice, and I to fire.’ (Line 1, p.106) Spenser use ice and fire to describe his personal feeling of love. Conceits make us easy to understand the meaning in the sonnet.
Reference:
Abrams, M.H. (1993). The Norton Anthology of English Literature, 6th ed. New York: W.W. Norton and Company, Inc., p. 1081.
Shakespeare (1564-1616), Sonnet XVIII, Sonnet CXXX
Edmund Spenser (1522-1599), ‘Ice And Fire’
It is a good response to the question and I did not know properly what conceit were until now.
ReplyDeletePart 1 of ? for What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
ReplyDeleteQuestion 3
What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
Before I can fully answer this question in it many fact-its, I would be better for you to know some background information what the English Renaissance was.
The English Renaissance, marked from the 14th till 17th Century is a transitional period in which we moved from the newer term “Middle Ages” to the Modern History in more ways than one. (British Literary Survey, n.d.). In this period, a cultural, religious, technological and economic revolution took place from many corners of the world and changed or established the way or ways in which we live, love, write and exist today. (Wikipedia. (2015)). The Renaissance was not limited to England, it also occurred in Germany, France, Italy, Russia and Spain to just name a few. (Wikipedia. (2015)). Though it did primarily originate in Florence, Italy. (Wikipedia. (2015)).
Circling back to the main question, it directly refers to the English renaissance as the key event (AUT. (2015)).
During this period in Renaissance England, many writer's both men and women (not so much women) became famous for their poet and literary progress, products or prowess. Some of these famous writers include Edwund Spencer, William Shakespeare, Katherine Philips, John Donne and Johnathon Swift. Though Edwund Spencer was not a very nice person “For his genocidal views express in his writings”. For William Shakespeare, a name of whom most of us all know from famous plays like Mac Beth or Romeo and Juliet among other works which are still studied and acted out in movie or theatre to this very day. (AUT. (2015)).
This period also helped many other writers, thanks to the invention of the printing press in 1455, to mass produce, cheaply and quickly their written works to give and sell to the masses. In the essay by David Judkins, it even goes on as far to say that thanks to the printing press , a lot of the early writers like Shakespeare became “early capitalist enterpriser's” because they were not creatively locked by class or sex due to the wealth they made from selling their works. This is seen as an early form of capitalist pursuits. This could have even been an origin for the use of the word, capitalism. Something to think about ,maybe? (Judkins, D. n.d.).
Considering the main points covered in the primary readings by Revard, the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression is made clear.
The main example studies which covers these is the poetic products or competition between the writers Katherine Philips and Abraham Cowley.
Part 2 in next post
Sex – The works of the time do not paint a very good picture of what is was like to be a women of the time and a writer or how they were treated (very poorly and mocked). In Katherine Philip's piece called Triumphs of Female Wit, she goes as far to defend the right of women to pursue learning. Saying “They have the wit to compose poetry”. A response to this comes from Cowley, who only examines and comments on her beauty first and foremost before even actually evaluating her work for its merit. An example of this comes from On the Death of Mrs Katherine Philips were “Cowley never passes
Deletebeyond the easy compliment to Philips's beauty and the virtues of her sex
to evaluate the quality and substance of her poetry”. This man in my opinion is a modern day ignorant or sexist for not truly evaluating her works. Taken forth, Cowley evaluates people in a specific way, “All these complimentary poems to men are extravagant; but all look at the
artist, the writer, the scientist first, then at the man. But in his odes to
Katherine Philips, he never lets us forget that we are looking at best at a
most curious phenomenon--a woman who writes. Both odes dwell
therefore on the qualities that most properly characterize woman: above
all, beauty and virtue first and then wit--female wit.” An explanation to this quote is not necessary as it speaks for itself. (ll. 15-18) (Revard, overall text)
Language – The language used in the time greatly changed with the advent of the Pindaric sonnet, created largely by Cowley (Revard, Paragraph 4). It becoming a type of written piece that was practised by both males and females of the time. It can be described in the sense that it is extravagant and even over the top in its approach. Taken from (11. 21-23)6, Cowley comments on females and love,
Who can, alas, their strength express,
Armed, when they themselves undress,
Cap-a-pe with Nakedness?
(ll. 21-23)6
This very subjective language plays upon a women beauty and I would even say mocks them, making some sort of overture that they are to mother and be things of beauty before anything else. That they can not be a painter, poet or even a teacher (Revard, Paragraph 11).
Power – The power of these texts come into play as they are sometime subjective in how they poetry people and who they should be. Though in the period of the English Renaissance, many aspects of the society was changing, the “power” shift differently. For example, in Germany, during their renaissance, they separated from the catholic church, this meant more people went to elected people or the royal members or families “Power to the people”. A power shift also occurred when Henry VIII sort independence from Rome “and maybe also the church” due to personal reasons and a possible want to govern without religious interference. (Judkins, D. n.d.).
Transgression – As to studying the readings to find out what Transgression means, it could not really find a good enough example for it. To what the textbook definition of Transgression, it is do something against a situation or person with knowledge of what you are doing. This could be the female writers of the time “transgressing” deliberately against the then establish male-dominated society and other systems of the time, specifically writing. Katherine's works from reading excerpts from some, lead to a “barbing” or attack on male literature and how it is and was written. Personal thought is that the female works of the time were better than male works. (Personal opinion, can not be citied properly nor should it be)
Part 3 in next post
Conclusion – It is hard to really give a good answer to this question but with the information I have given you can come to your own opinion of what Revard truly suggests about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance? For me, The renaissance worldwide after doing my own research was a very important event that created the world to a degree that we live in today. For sexual rights, it brought forth a better and more realistic perspective of what it was like to be a women and how they were treated, better than Chaucer ever could with Wife of Bath's Tale.
DeleteAnother factor is it brought forth some of the most popular and benefical governmental systems of our present day, power to the peopleDemocracy. Though subject to your own beliefs. Without the separation of the church and state, I can only come up with bad thoughts as to the state that the world might be in this day.
The changes and advents of newer writing types brought out of the renaissance has helped to increase creativity and approach to language. Imagine, without the English Renaissance, would we still be writing epic or poems in the middle age style and way. Would the worldwide language be as they were during the middle age, rejecting and not reflecting changes to them.
This is all food for thought. Feel free to comment below. This question was very hard to do and took a whole week to research then finally write over two days.
References
AUT. (2015). 166101 Literature / Desire: Weeks 4-6 b: Language of Seduction II. Accessed on 24th ,April 2015. Retrieved from AUT Servers, file name Lit&Desire_4-6b.pptx
British Literary Survey (n.d.). Periods: Renaissance.Accessed on 21st ,April 2015. Retrieved from http://people.umass.edu/eng2/per/renaissance.html
Judkins, D. (n.d.). Life is Reaissance England. Accessed on 22nd, April 2015. Retrieved from http://www.uh.edu/~djudkins/life_in_renaissance_england.htm
Revard, S.P. (1997). Katherine Philips, Aphra Behn, and the Female Pindaric in Representing Women in Renaissance England, edited by Cluade J. Summers and Ted-Larry Pebworth. Columbia: University of Missouri Press.
Wikipedia. (2015). The Renaissance: Overview. Accessed on 25th ,April 2015. Retrieved from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Renaissance#Overview
Wikipedia. (2015). The Renaissance: Spread. Accessed on 25th ,April 2015. Retrieved from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Renaissance#Spread
Feel free to comment or say anything about my work.
DeleteWell done Stewart. This is a mini essay, and not so mini! Your language is not naturally academic but you show a pretty good understanding of the issues.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhat does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
ReplyDeleteAfter I read the article by Revard, I found out that there was too difficult for male poets to accept female poets because of the time. At the time, gender inequality was still very high. Women still got unfair treatment. When women started to write poetry, they were always judged firstly as women, taking into consideration her beauty, then secondly as a poet. As Revard (1997) stated ‘It was apparently almost impossible in this era to be gender blind.”
Male poets judged on female poet’s appearance rather than their work. ‘The issue of sex becomes so important a motif that the assessment of Philips as a poet takes second place.’(Revard, S. P. 1997) Furthermore, According to Revard (1997), ‘For if a man and a woman compete in a literary contest and he “loses” as a man he also loses the right to dominate in other areas’. For men, women poets were a threat. They didn’t want to admit and never admit it.
However, women could write as well as men. It’s the good way to express themselves through poems. Revard (1997) stated that, ‘the acceptability of a woman pursuing learning and contesting in the domain of poetry that had been almost exclusively male’. These showed that women poets against the rule that ‘no women were allowed to write poetry’.
Reference
Revard, S.P. (1997)"Katherine Philips, Aphra Behn, and the Female Pindaric in Representing Women in Renaissance England,
Excellent written piece, I could not have said it better myself. But did you study any other sources to come to your conclusion?
Delete1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"
ReplyDeleteA loathly lady is a common archetype in medieval literature who is a seemingly very unattractive and undesirable woman who becomes beautiful when a man is able to look past her appearance and love her for what she is thus he is rewarded for not being shallow. It is revealed that her ugliness was a curse now lifted because of his 'heroic' action. This motif is present in modern fairy tales such as the Beauty and the Beast, the tale of the prince turned into a frog etc.
In The Wife of Bath's Tale a knight in King Arthur's time rapes a young lady and is decreed by the Queen to find out what women desire most within a year or be executed. The knight seeks out the answer and receives differing and unsatisfactory responses. With no time left he approaches an old hag who gives him the answer on a special condition. He returns to court to present his answer to the Queen (sovereignty) which pleases her and his life is spared. The old hag reveals in court that the condition was that the knight was to marry her, which he reluctantly does. On the wedding night the old hag asks the knight what he would prefer, a beautiful woman or a loyal woman, the knight responds by saying the choice is hers. Pleased with the answer she asks him to kiss her and when he does she turns into a beautiful woman.
In The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Ragnelle there is no royal decree upon a knight but instead a knight's challenge upon King Arthur to seek what women desire most within a year (or lose his head) when he encounters a mystical knight alone in a haunted forest. King Arthur and his nephew Sir Gawain search for the answer with no two answers being the same. King Arthur encounters an old hag back in the haunted forest who will give him the answer if she were to marry Sir Gawain. So the person who has to marry the loathly lady is not the person who has to find out what women desire most. Sir Gawain consents and the answer is again sovereignty. On the wedding night Sir Gawain takes his new wife to bed as he would any beautiful woman. But when he looks at her he is shocked to see a beautiful woman, she explains she was under a spell which could only be reversed if she found true love, but only for half a day. She then gives him the choice if he would like her beautiful by day or night. He gives her the power to choose herself which lifts the spells completely.
In King Henry, a folk song by Steeleye Span, there is no quest for what women desire most, and there is no death threat upon a shamed knight or wondering King. The loathly lady is not an old hag but a fat “ghostly” woman whose waist can’t be measured. She asks the king for hospitality, meat, wine, and a bed. She has King Henry kill his horses, hounds and hawks for her to eat which the king does so remorsefully. When she's done eating and drinking she asks for a bed and for King Henry to share it with her. I'm not sure if he does because he says:
"Oh God forbid, says King Henry,
That ever the like betide
That ever a fiend that comes from hell
Should stretch down by my side"
But the next day she becomes a fair lady and she says
"I've met with many a gentle knight
That gave me such a fill
But never before with a courteous knight
That gave me all my will (sovereignty)"
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
ReplyDeleteThe Wife of Bath's Tale is a story which is part of a collection of Geoffrey Chaucer tales; The Canterbury Tales. It gives some perspective into the roles of women at the time it was written around the 14th century and can be viewed as pro or anti-feminist. Obviously this was a very long time ago in the medieval ages which was predominately a male dominated society. The common woman would have to do her all straining daily duties, such as the house work, looking after the family and husband as well as other labour such some kind of work on the family land. They had no say in a lot of things and had little rights, they were expected to do as they were told.
In The Wife of Bath's Tale a Knight rapes a fair maiden and is ordered by the Queen to seek what women most desire in which he has a year's time to do so or face the King's justice. For a year he seeks out the answer but with no luck and when he is to return to court he encounters a loathly lady who gives him the answer (sovereignty) which saves his life but now he has to marry this very undesirable woman. When he kisses her the ugly woman she turns into a beautiful woman who asks if he would prefer a beautiful or loyal woman to which he responds by giving her sovereignty and she remains beautiful forever.
It is pro-feminist in that women should have sovereignty over their own affairs not to be oppressed/objectified by man. It teaches men to go beyond the superficial of judging women solely based on beauty but also on character, personality and intellect as well. This is not a traditional story where the hero (male) saves the damsel in distress but the unlikely woman who saves the knight at the mercy of the Queen for raping a girl. But what makes me uneasy is the fact that the knight didn't really pay for the horrible crime he committed, in fact he is ultimately rewarded with a beautiful wife, although I doubt he would rape again. The young maiden isn’t mentioned beyond her being raped so I feel justice wasn’t really served.
1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
ReplyDeleteLady
(Chaucer) -The Wife of Bath’s Tale by Geoffrey Chaucer uses the Motif of the Loathly Lady. In Chaucer’s version, the lady is described in the first line as simply “a woman”. However, this is statement changes in the next sentence where it is stated that “no man could imagine an uglier creature” this statement beginning the motif of the Loathly Lady. Also, Chaucer has the old woman describe herself as ugly, old and poor. He goes on the mention her as “loathsome and of such low lineage”, though these are the words of Sir Gawain.
(Hahn, T) – In this tale Kind Arthur is a prominent character, and it is King Arthur himself who meets an Old Woman. Similar to Chaucer’s tale, the ugly woman holds a secret which is desired. In Hahn’s tale, the woman is described as “the ugliest creature that man ever saw.” Unlike Chaucer’s version, Hahn’s goes into extensive detail on how ugly this woman is. He mentions her runny nose, her yellow teeth, her bleary eyes and large mouth. Also, she is named in this version as Dame Ragnell, in which Chaucer’s does not.
In Steeleye Span’s ‘King Henry’, the lady is written as less of an ugly woman and more of a monstrous ghost. She sets the dogs barking and her head touches the roof of the hall. Also, in this version, the ugly woman is able to eat a horse and grey hounds. Steeleye Span, in a similar tone to that of Chaucer’s tale, uses the motif of the Loathly lady, where the ugly lady eventually turns into a beautiful woman. Lastly Steeleye Span’s version is written as a poem differing form your more traditional tale.
Knight
Chaucer seems to mention very little about King Arthur, in this story he seems to focus on Sir Gawain. The reason one can assume it is Sir Gawain the knight is in the sentence, “And so it happened that this king Arthur, Had in his house a lusty bachelor, that on one day came riding from hawking.” The reference to hawking is because Sir Gawain is also known as the Hawk of May. The description of Sir Gawain as a lusty bachelor, seems to diminish his reputation as a noble knight, and transforms him into a regular lustful young man. Chaucer describes the act of rape by saying that “By utter force, he took away her maidenhead, for which wrong was such clamor.”
Once the Sir Gawain has found the answer to the Queens Question he must marry the old woman, in which he is not pleased. His feelings are summed up when he yells “My love?” he said, “Nay my damnation” Though, in the end he does marry her, but it is reiterated throughout the tale that the reason he is full of sorrow is because of her looks, age and lineage.
(Hahn, T) paints the knight as the exact opposite to that of Chaucer’s Tale, he is gallant and honourable, and he would sacrifice his own life to save the kings. In this light Sir Gawain seems like a different knight completely to that Chaucer has depicted. Sir Gawain says with conviction that he would be happy to wed this “Fiend…Even were she as foul as Beelzebub” again different from the other versions.
King
In Hahn’s tale of a Loathly Lady, King Arthur is very prominent compared to that of Chaucer’s Tale. However, he is also mentioned a lot in Steeleye Span’s, ‘King Henry’. In this text he does not force Gawain to marry the Dam Ragnell, but offer him a choice. Also, Steeleye Span uses the king as the so called ‘sacrificial lamb’ and has him sleep with the ugly woman.
I found these texts to be mainly tiring, however, seen in the light of Chaucer possibly teasing the Irish folklore, added some intrigue.
Reference:
Steeleye Span (1972). King Henry. In Below the Salt. US: Shanachie
Chaucer, Geoffrey, (c.1390), The Wife of Bath.
Hahn, T. (Ed.). (1997), The Wedding of Sir Gawain & Dame Ragnelle
Reference for above blog
ReplyDeletehttp://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/index.html 01.01.06 (Chaucer REF
In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
ReplyDeleteIn literature there are two main forms of conceit. Firstly, their is Metaphysical conceit, this is where the writer uses superstitions, spiritual or even the emotional qualities, and through juxtaposition with realistic, grounded everyday concepts, forms an over arching metaphor.
For example poet John Dunne (1572-1631), was associated with Metaphysical conceit poetry. This can be seen in one of his more famous poems, The Flea. This is where he uses a Flea and its ability to bite. John spoke to his lover of how the flea, through biting both him and her, has mixed their blood and through this act there has been no sin. Moreover, because the flea has been able to do this natural act, their love should be the same (although I think John Dunne was more focused on the bedroom than anything else.)
The other type of classical literary conceit is Petrarchan conceit. This type of conceit focuses on the emotion of love by comparing it to lost love. For example the poem by Francesco Petrarch, (1304-1374), where he writes of seeing someone so beautiful and love die before his eyes, ending with the world seeming horrible and unjust.
Reference for above:
ReplyDeleteSelden , R. (1974). Hobbes and Late Metaphysical Poetry. United States: University of Pennsylvania Press
John Donne (1572-1631), ‘The Flea’
Francesco Petrarch, Petrarchan Sonnet, “Visions”
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
ReplyDeleteFor me I find the most outrageous example of a conceit in a poem we have studied, is one I have mentioned earlier. That of John Dunnes 'The Flea'. I find this poem to be outrageous because of the conceit he has used, comparing the act of sex and that of religous doctrine. The Flea, a flea biting him and the one he loves does not, in anyway, seem a good metaphor for lust and desire. I feel as if his conceit, though interesting in abstract thinking, is also lame and tiresome.
Also, by saying that the flea has committed no sin, by the act of sucking blood from both him and his lover, and that by this justification they should just have sex, is clutching at straws. I hope that no one in their right mind would have fallen for this poem.
The relationship between sonnets and conceits would help me to answer the question 4. To answer the question, the definitions of conceit and sonnet are necessary. According to the Oxford dictionary, the definition of conceit is that ‘An ingenious or fanciful comparison or metaphor’. Sonnet stands for that ‘A poem of fourteen lines using any of a number of formal rhyme schemes, in English typically having then syllables per line’. Furthermore, the word, conceit, is one of late English late word. Shakespeare’s sonnet XVIII would be a great example for conceits. In the text, woman is compared with nature to emphasis and dwell on the meaning of the words. Conceit is highly similar with metaphor as they compare words or people to others. Sonnets require romantic and rhythmical sentences so that, conceits are one of the critical elements to make poems meaningful and rhythmical.
ReplyDeleteReference list
Definition of conceit in English:. (n.d.). Retrieved June 11, 2015, from http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/conceit
Definition of sonnet in English:. (n.d.). Retrieved June 11, 2015, from http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sonnet
Revard (1997) clearly stated that ‘it was almost impossible in this era to be gender blind’, and ‘it actually limits the woman that it seems to praise linking her wit to her beauty and confining her to sphere where she is judged as a woman first and a poet second’, which means literary culture in the era was unequal between men and women. In the era, women were almost restricted right to compose poetry and even successful poets who were female were evaluated as sex not a poet. When women’s poetries were rated by others in the literary contest, poetries which were written by women were evaluated as a woman first and then a poet, even successful poets’ poems. Women were regarded as someone’s wives or mothers not people who were smart and intelligent such as poets in the era. Therefore, in the era, human being’s power depended on which gender is first. Power, talent, ability were evaluated after sex.
ReplyDeleteReference list
Revard , S.P., Summers, C.J. & Pebworth, T. (Eds).(1997).Katherine Philips, Aphra Behn and The female Pindaric in representing women in renaissance England. Columbia: University of Missouri Press
In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
ReplyDelete‘Conceit’ according Nordquist (2015) its “a literary and rhetorical term for an elaborate or strained figure of speech, usually a metaphor or simile”
It was originally used as a synonym for an ‘idea’ or ‘concept’, usually its intention is to surprise readers due to its intelligence.
John Donne is often refered to as the Master of Metaphysical conceit, which is basically taking qualities such as emotional or spiritual and compares them to every day earthly concepts. One example of this is in his equation of lovers with saints in “The Canonization”. Metaphysical goes in to a much deeper level of the comparison of two most unlikely things or objects. In “A valediction: Forbidding Mourning” a famous John Donne conceit, is when he compare two lovers who have been separated to the two legs of a compass.
The Elizabethan poets were quite fond of petrarchan conceits, which were basically conventional comparisons, which were imitations from ‘love’ songs of Petrarch, often comparing ‘the beloved’ to something beautiful, such as a flower or a garden. It’s a more cliché comparison, comparing love to a rose.
Elizabethan Poetry. (n.d). A class unconventional-biographies-writers and poets. Retrieved 10 June, 2015 from https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=NoVBAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=example+of+elizabethan+poetry+to+petrarchan+conceits&source=bl&ots=rAERqMi6Oc&sig=yKDHC4BJF-_TdvaHfidxgK9ApZ0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCWoVChMIpfKL3ZuJxgIVEKa8Ch0ePwA-#v=onepage&q=example%20of%20elizabethan%20poetry%20to%20petrarchan%20conceits&f=false
Nordquist, R. (2015). Conceit. Retrieved 10 June, 2015 from http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/Conceit-term.htm